Left: Simon drawing in the IBS guestbook. Look at the end of the interview to see what he is drawing

KEY:

Red : what SK says (or does)

Black : what the interviewer says (or does)

Blue : what the audience says (or does)

Green : music

Violet : extra information

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen!

Oh, is that for me, is it? Wonderful! It is red wine… a whole bottle

Do I need this? (the microphone) … I hate that!  maybe, we must see!  ok!      

… and would like to quote briefly from a review: …“Among the singers it was only Simon Keenlyside as the intellectual conformist Wolfram who made a lasting impression.” And this Simon Keenlyside, this Wolfram with the lasting impression is our guest here tonight and I would like to welcome him sincerely.

Mr. Keenlyside, not so long ago you sang Prospero in the world premiere of the opera “The Tempest” by Thomas Adès. What does contemporary music mean to you?

First of all I must say: excuse me for my German being so bad but I’ll try to speak German, if it is not possible we can mix and match, and do it without the mike too, tell me if it is not loud enough, because I’m a bit bothered by it.... you always have to be controlled with this gadget (We’ll take it away) Thank you! (laughs). Yeah, it’s the same with CDs too! (laughs).

Well…er… I cannot say, ehm, how can I as… as a simple singer say … that… that this “Tempest“ is a… a wonderful… piece? But I know it is, it is not my opinion, it is… the role of Prospero was very heavy for the voice, not lyric. Nevertheless very fulfilling – how [do you] say “fulfilling” in German? (Very fulfilled). (Audience: Difficult?) Difficult? Awfully difficult, yes! Very low and too high and…, like a ten… tenor one moment and next moment, er, totally low, but it served, it was always with the text and for me this was very important.

(Audience: How does he compose? More like Schönberg, more like Kagel or more in the manner of the late romanticism?) More like Thomas Adès. (Audience laughs) No, the… the truth was that I didn’t do this piece  because I knew the ... er... work of Thomas Adès, only that it was two months at home, this... right in the beginning. But… half of the reason, this is for… was for me so wonderful, it... it was not pastiche, it was really something else.

Photo: Clive Barda/ArenaPal

 .

You told us already that it was relatively difficult to sing. Have you sung modern music – or contemporary music - often before?

No, I don’t feel like it, er… not... to sing modern music… operas often... Why? We have... us singers... have a responsibility… to make new music from time to time, but not always. My... my favourite music is what is lyric, this I... I know quite well, it is an old... erm... tradesman... it is an old... er… craft, an old… (An old trade). Yes, yes. That’s interesting for me and I have… to do so much with old music myself that.... I.... better for me to stay between [17^th, 18 ^th (he plays with numbers 24, 30)] (laughs) … yes, to… to Benjamin Britten – for me. I don’t have enough time!

Old music: We understand old music as from the renaissance and from the early baroque. Do you sing baroque music too?

Erm… what is Monteverdi? Well? In the middle? (Audience: It is late renaissance, early baroque) Just for fun I have er... sung Monteverdi’s Orfeo one... once and it was such… such a surprise for me, this is such… such wonderful music, therefore I have to say: Yes, Monteverdi, but not often. It is like a recital. (You can do recitals often, can’t you?) Yes.

You told me yesterday that you come from a very musical family   Mm and that you came to music at a very early age.  Will you tell us a little about it?

My grandfather was… they were both famous... er violin players – fiddlers as we say – first in erm... string quartets my grandpa in the forties er... and my father too – Aeolian String Quartet – therefore I never er... heard singers in the house, only… (only violin) Yes. My... my mother sent me to one of those weird English boarding schools and er... we had four hours per day  singing, and this at the beginning at an age of eight, and we ... travelled... departing all the time.

St John's College, Cambridge

This was a very famous choir from Cambridge Yeah, yeah   that travelled much. Was this church music or secular music too?

Church music, but er… half of it modern, Messiaen, Tippett, we met them all.

So you did sing modern music then? Yes, yes, in the chorus, yeah. Erm and... the… standard... the... level was... as high as our profession now.

As high as of professional singers today? As high as... yes.

Even then you travelled outside Europe. Yes. Or just in Europe? No, America, Australia, Japan, everywhere in Europe. Yes.

So you were a child star? No, not me! Choir.

Were you singing solo or just in the choir? Yeah, yeah we have to do both. Both.

You sang solo too? Both. Yeah.

Soprano or alto? There’s only one – soprano. Treble, we have… we call them treble… with boys.

Well, the boys’ choirs here… It is... yes... yes... they differ between soprano and alto. Yes. Not in England, it is... no, the music is… er… treble and contra. Contra are… er countertenor.

But afterwards you bade farewell to the music for some time, studying zoology.

What can I say? Yes.

Why? Oh... this is my … my passion, it is my… I … one animal amongst many other animals. (Audience laughs). I... but I really think that, and I want to spend my whole life looking at the world around me and that means other animals who share this planet with me.

And this also was the reason why you left school relatively early and could not study music at once, wasn’t it?

No, no, I have er... done all my time at school and afterwards... university till... 24 – in England this is normal – and afterwards four more years at a College of Music till nearly 29. Rather late in England.

In England, but not here. (laughs) And this was in Manchester? Yes, yes. There’s a lot of famous singers who have studied there. Yes, it was a wonderful school because it did not cost much (laughs). Yes, I think this was important because we had many er sailors... erm mar... marin.... (Seamen) yes, or... or firemen or... yes we had... or like me, we… we can take a small risk, for example [paying] £500 per year for the whole school. We had many mature students, which is very important.

Here everyone can study without paying, unless he goes to a private boarding school. Yes, yes.

But the universities too… there are only certain fees.

Yes. I did not pay for my university but afterwards, I had to pay for the second degree myself. Yes.

And… after that you made your first appearance in opera.

Yes. Hamburg.

No. Yesterday you told me something else.

Oh, er, in... in Aldeburgh – Rape of Lucretia. Yes.

Did you see this Rape of Lucretia? (SK asks the audience. The production was playing at the Staatsoper at this time)

(Affirmation from the audience)

And what do you think? (Positive reactions from the audience)  

It is interesting, isn’t it? Personally I find the last 5 minutes a little difficult, but (laughs) apart from these … apart from this I find it wonderful. Hm. Interesting piece. And it’s good that it… in the Prinzreg … regenttheater, the... acoustic is a bit more like Aldeburgh and er... because I’m tired of… always doing the War Requiem or these erm “quasi religioso” operas like Lucretia… in an opera house. It… the... the acoustic is not right.

But the Prinzregententheater is an opera house.

Yes. Yes! Nevertheless the acoustic is all wood and… a little odd.

Well, yes, it was constructed in accordance with the Festspielhaus in Bayreuth. Yes. Really? Oh! Yes…  I’ve never been to Bayreuth.

Also with the covered orchestra pit, it was constructed in accordance to the Festspielhaus in Bayreuth. Right. Right. So it was constructed as an opera house. Hm.

It is just nowadays not only used for operas but more for concerts.

Which role did you sing in Rape of Lucretia?

Tarquinius. Hm. (laughs) I wanted to sing Lucretia but they said no.

And then came the real beginning of your career, which means that you went to auditions.

Yes. Baritone day in Bremen or Köln or Hamburg. Uiui. Yeah.

And so how did you come to Hamburg?

Luck. Only… chance, just chance. Just chance. Yeah.

But you wanted to start in the German speaking region? Yes. Yes.

Why?

Ah, that’s funny, because I wanted my German to improve. (laughs).

Had you already learnt German in England? No! No.

No, well then you had started to learn German!  Now that you mention it! No, but my… my prof, my old... he was a friend of both of us... actually (pointing at a man sitting in the first row, whom he obviously knew)... John Cameron, he  er... told me that it would be better if I study German first and live in Germany... otherwise... er... if  half of my life is lieder and it...

And that’s what you wanted right from the beginning, to sing lieder.

Yes. But without the… German grammar it is a little hard, I found. (laughs)

Audience: There are very nice lieder recordings that are without any accent!

This we will hear...

Not by me! (laughs). Yes, by you! No!

I have read that you made your debut in Hamburg's Almaviva in Marriage of Figaro. Is this correct or did you sing smaller parts first?

Yes, I did sing all the smaller parts in Hamburg, as normal, it is a… a good start, for a beginning to... to do all these small parts. So many stories that we all know.

But in your CV is written that you sang Count Almaviva in Marriage of Figaro then.

Yes, yes.

And now we are going to listen to… the aria from Act 3. RecordingViennaStateOpera, conductor Riccardo Muti, from  18 June 2001.

If I am not good, I must say “stop”. This I haven’t heard, is this from... from the radio?

Music: Hai gia vinta la causa

(SK got out his drawing-book and started to draw, humming along but clearly not enjoying what he was hearing)

You have no idea how stressful it is to hear my own voice….. And live too!

You’ll all have the possibility to hear this here, really live, during the next season because he will sing this role several times here.

Yes, I love this piece so much. I have been singing erm... mostly Mozart for ten, nearly ten, twelve years, it is good for my voice because it... it came peu à peu, er... it was... it was a small lyric voice and... I make no apology... how do you... how do I say this in German? (I don’t want to apologise) yes, for this, because I think this is normal, it is only an old… an old way… and… and… yes, the modern way is where a young man [who] is doing well to begin to sing too much. Thus [I] sing... yes, Mozart and... and so ah... I have... I’m never tired, I’m never tired for… of Zauberflöte and I find more every time I do it is like the first time, the text by da Ponte is utterly fabulous, is utterly unbelievable.

And do you still sing much Mozart today?

Yes, [but] not Cosi any more. Yes.

But still Figaro, Zauberflöte, Papageno Papageno. Yes. Yes. The Zauberflöte is like a....

(Audience: Giovanni) Giovanni, yes, yes.

Not too much because it [Giovanni] interferes with the… it interferes with my voice a bit. If... if you do... four months, it’s too... too much for me. For... for you play the... this... this vengeance, this... so… much... er, there this is too much. Mm. Two months is enough.

(Audience: I bought some years ago this recording by Abbado, Don Giovanni is sung by one Simon Keenlyside. What made Abbado choose you?)

Chance. Bryn… Bryn is a… a… is a good friend of mine and er… we have worked together and he was a… a new star in the… in the panoply… pantheon... and... and... er... Abbado heard me and said ok.

We'll take him!

But I... I don’t like this... no, I don’t li… this er… (Audience: Recording) yes... my part in the recording is… is bad, is... is very bad and I would... Because we sang seven performances in ten days. This is so stupid and dumb. It is not necessary to make another Don Giovanni, unless it... it... it brings something else, something that... with detail, with a [new] thought, a [new] overview, but why do we make another... a middle of the road Giovanni? And between these seven performances we have three per... per... three days six hours per day... er... (recordings) yes, recordings. Performance, performance, recording... performance, recording – ten days. I was completely (making a gesture like falling dead from the chair)…. I can believe that! Yes.

From our conversation about Don Giovanni we [now] have red wine on the table. Yes! You said that you actually can drink it in Don Giovanni on stage because you die soon afterwards, so the wine makes no difference any more. It might be more critical with Papageno if he drinks wine and has to sing on for longer afterwards. Yes. That’s what I noticed (laughs). That’s why I have decided to give him a glass of wine or even two... No, for Papageno I just have... one, one... (clinks glass) one glass of wine...

Yes, but tonight you don’t sing Papageno, so you may drink even two.

Yes, I will! Later in the restaurant, I’ll sing the whole night then! (laughs)

But you want to go to the highest mountain in Germany tomorrow? Yes.

Which is your favourite – Italian opera, French opera or German opera?

Well, that’s a good question because... ehm... I... I always want to play Papageno... it is not dif... it is easy to sing but it is a wonderful training for... for... for every actor and for my German too. Wonderful! And... and er... Mozart is... is...

Count… it is not difficult to… to sing, it is not high, not low, it is in the middle,  but you act the whole time… and [for] Don Carlos or... Tannhäuser you always must have total discipline. I could not say it is... which is better, green or... or yellow, it is... it is like a sunny day or rainy day. They’re both wonderful.

But you very much like to sing French opera too?

Yeah! Willingly. Mm. Pelleas c’est… is un peu special… er… (blows) Iphigénie en Tauride because it is such a… piece for… for act… actors too. Yes.

In other words, roles where you have to act and create a lot particularly appeal to you?

I... I ... I am interested in this. In the beginning I have, my first... nearly my first job was... was Pagliacci… erm... Silvio in Pagliacci. And I had the… the great joy to work with Piero Cappuccilli. And he said to me, as... as young man, he said er... he... he liked me and I thought “that’s great, I would love him"…

he said: “Don’t… don’t leave … your Italian repertoire too late”… And... I had thought the opposite... you had to wait... for 15 years and I er asked: “but why?”

And he said: “Because you are an Englishman and it will be very difficult to start erm... with the Italian repertoire in 15 years.” To start. And he was right. He is right.

But he also said: “Always act“... er…there is, you all know, there is an old… Italian erm... phrase – “prima la voce”.

When I was a student, I did not understand, I thought, that this is the stupid Italian stance that remains static and one just sings – so wrong was I, because he... he says to me “Always act with your voice“ – now I understand. Now I understand!

When a… when a great poet stands here and… and says a... a... a poem, it is not necessary to make these somersaults and all to the audience, and... that’s the same with us too. And for... for me, for example, Don Carlos is like… a role like... like that. You... there is nothing to ... to... to do on stage, not too much, but all the colours that are possible in my voice must…. That’s interesting me more and more.

..

Now we have another musical example from the French opera, in fact Faust has been broadcast from London recently... Ui! ... This is Valentin’s aria...

I did not loiter about before the mike... I noticed when my dear colleague er... came on stage and looked to see where Roberto [Alagna] was – ah! Because I did not understand that the mike was here [that it was being recorded?]

Music: Avant de quitter ces lieux

(SK starts drawing in his book)

Audience: It is not as bad as you pretend.

Hm. Interesting for me. Er…. Not interesting for me…. But when the… the mike really understands [works?]... it is ... no different (no difference) no difference, of course, no difference between piano and forte, only the attacca. It is nearly frustrating. Yes.

Well, but I would say that you may well sing French Opera here with us too. Pelleas for example.

Oh I love Pelleas. I adore Pelleas.

In a relatively new operatic encyclopaedia I have read that you are always searching, hating every kind of commercialization and stardom and not liking to work on directors’ experiments.

(postive reaction from the audience)

Our audience recommends it. What is it like to sing, for example, in a production like the Tannhäuser here that is a director’s experiment to a certain degree?

I have not seen any other Tannhäuser or… or... Is this the only Tannhäuser Yes in which you have been singing so far? Yes. Yes. And....

(Audience: O infelice) (laughs) Pardon? Stumm! (laughs)

And… I … really, what can I say? Nothing about the production, because I have only seen this one… this is my only Tannhäuser, but this role, it is difficult for me because I don’t understand this man. And like all geniuses – Wagner like Mozart, for example Guglielmo, or... like Cosi, it... it seems to me… that Wolfram represents a... a state of mind, he is not a whole man and I have not yet so much sympathy – sympathy? (Yes) with... with him, and… because the… the colour is rather monochrome from th... beginning to the end… and I find this… difficult for me to hold for four hours. (To wait one and a half hours and then...?) No, I mean that there is no… in the beginning you are so… (Audience: No culmination) no… yes, no…. (Audience: No development) yes, exactly, yes.

(Audience: but if you saw the performance on Tuesday you would have to say that the opera must be renamed from Tannhäuser to Wolfram.) Yes, that’s what was also written in the review I quoted before.

Audience: So how did you approach this role, with a special teacher or something?

No, on stage. (Audience laughs) Really. That you... you live this character and... make discoveries all the time... what... one thinks. Maybe this is... wrong but this is my own way, I cannot study in a book what er.... lives on stage. I... I find it… futile. For me.

Audience: The press wrote then that you fit into this conception better because this Wolfram usually is such a self-assured type who stands above everything… Really? Me? Ha. No, Wolfram, not you… In this production Wolfram really is shabby… Yes. And this review said that you impersonated this better than Bernd Weikl because he is just a big lump of a man – it never fitted that well… and that you fitted into this conception better.

Well, but I would say that Bernd Weikl, he is a brilliant artist and he has done so many Wolframs that maybe he knows better than Mr.... erm.... yes. Maybe.... maybe, maybe that he... er…. and maybe at the age of about 50, 55 years that like me a… already in Giovanni I say to… I sing my own self. No, I won’t do… the… this as Giovanni I cannot. And maybe Bernd Weikl does understand something that I not and he says: “No, it is a proud man and and... has more dignity and he is not so fragile.” But I did only... the... er... Alden says to me: “It must be fragile”, that’s why I must.

Audience: But you may well sing Don Giovanni here, Giovanni is also this shabby. (laughs)

Audience talks about the Giovanni production in Munich: Our Giovanni production would suit you. (Audience:...at the end he has to cower around totally broken).

Yeah... yeah... yeah. But I think when you… are… how do you say... proud? from... from the beginning to the end, this is bori.... slowly er... borin.... boring! boring – for me. Because er… the… the... vulnerability of … of the human condition is more interesting actually for me. Yes. Yes.

Ah... this is an interesting er... question because I did an interview with an old colleague from the ... the University in England, er... Simon Russell Beale. He is a magnificent Shakespearian actor and I have... we have both played Hamlet. I have sung this opera, this... er... French opera, Thomas’ opera, Hamlet and he has played a wonderful er... Hamlet in South Bank...

..      

Two Simons, two Hamlets: Keenlyside and Russell Beale (right)

....and I asked him... “how is it possible, Simon, that... how many versions of Hamlet do you make in a whole lifetime?” and he laughed and said: “There can be only... one for each actor, one... one Hamlet – one Hamlet, one Othello, one”.

And after this, afterwards I thought: “Be calm” because... because I cannot do more than two Papagenos... different Papagenos, a... bird and... and an... old man, a little... (Audience: Clown) Clown yeah, a little, not too much... not too much clown.

And Giovanni as well – I cannot do more, I cannot do more. But it’s… it’s ok with me because if such a great actor tells me: ”No, no, no, one is enough“ – yes, this journey is enough. Therefore I only mean that when I do this Giovanni here, I always try to find a way that is... er... [right] for the production, yes. But I can’t do anything different really, not really (Audience: But there are the costumes and the make-up too...) I try, I try. Yeah. A new wig, yeah (laughs).

Wolfram was your only Wagner-part so far. Yes. Yes.

Are you interested in singing others or are you planning...?

I couldn’t really. Only Beckmesser. At the moment it... I have no ambition to do Beckmesser. Wonderful piece, wonderful role… And [I only have] this silly idea... to sing Siegmund once just for concert. That’s what I want. That’s what I’d like to do. With my friend Franz Welser-Möst in... maybe in America. So we’ll have to go a long way! Do this here with us! Yes, of course you’ll have to. Yes. Yes… he’ll do the second act in concert and I think this is a good idea, and he says that if this works well then maybe we can sing the first act (laughs). Yes. Because it is... it is always like this... is like... I was… doing athletics 20 years ago, and er... the...  difference… diver…. erm... (the difference) differ…. alas! I know ”difference“... difference between a…. 400m runner and an 800 is not that a 400m runner cannot er... do a 800 once, this is... of course he can, but that he... erm [cannot do the] heats, semifinals and finals, this is... the difference between the two. And… so it is, many times, between erm a lyric baritone ….. who sings in the high [range] and... er “Heldenrolle”. You can sing Siegmund once, it is not so... not so difficult but for… for three… er… five weeks, oh... this is something else. You